RogueMechanic

I forgot to mention...

I have a fix for the Campagnolo Ultra Torque "non-issue". I want to offer the kit shortly here on this site. Details to follow.

Checking in

Hello all. I'm just crazy/busy keeping my clients on the road and trails. Definitely burning the candle at both ends. I thank all for the recent referals. Finally, if you feel so inclined, you can follow me on Twitter at @RogueMechanic.
That's it for now. -John

Checking in... again.

Happy New Year everyone.  Just a quick post to let you know that I'm not MIA... Just really busy.  Happy problems I guess....  Thanks for all of your emails and comments. Hopefully I'll post something soon.     -John

Campagnolo UT update

Just wanted to quickly say that I am well on the way to a fix for the Campy UT "non-issue". All of you who have contacted me regarding this, hang tight, I should have something to share posted here soon. Thanks for your patience. -John

Still Here!

Wow... What and eye-opener... Lesson learned, or at least a reminder, about what goes on on the some of the cycling related forums...

I just wanted to let those of you who emailed me and posted comments here regarding the Campy UT post know that I haven't backed down or considered walking away from this just yet. It's just too common of an issue. Please understand that this just might take some time. I am aware of the situations that surround what's going on... despite what's being thrown around on the forums and I am currently working on a viable solution or solutions. As soon as I have something definitive, I'll post it here. Thanks for checking in. -John

Campagnolo Ultra Torque Problem?

I have a theory that I want to share about the Campagnolo Ultra Torque crankset and bottom bracket system. I'm going to systematically lay out, in detail, what I believe is a design flaw, or at least, a short coming that has lead to and can cause issues. I've spent a considerable amount of time thinking this out and I have even consulted with a mechanical engineer... WARNING: This is going to be a long post and has the potential to be REALLY boring if you have zero interest in this topic.
But first, a brief overview of the design. Here's a CAD drawing.

Here's my extremely simplified description of the Ultra Torque design:
This system is designed around the Hirth joint, which joins the two semi-axles. These semi-axles are held together by a special fixing bolt. The bearings are pressed onto both of the semi-axles. Installation includes inserting the drive side of the crank into the driveside cup. It is then secured by a retaining spring. The non-drive side is then installed into the non-drive side cup with a wave washer placed on the semi-axle between cup and the bearing. The cups are supposed to be installed free of grease, with Loctite 222, hand tight. Install the fixing bolt, torque to spec, wait 24hrs (for the Loctite to cure), then off you go... Ok.. Here's the rub.

Well... not so fast. First some history.

When Campy first introduced this new system and I had the chance to install one, right off the bat, a red flag went up. What I didn't like or didn't understand is why would they design a system like that has a fixed distance between the bearings that doesn't much allow for the discrepancies in bottom bracket shell width??? I thought that I must OBVIOUSLY be missing something... But like a good little bike mechanic, I followed the installation instructions provided and completed the installation as specified ( I have to admit that I really struggled with myself when it came to the installation of the cups...). More on this later...
Fast forward sixish months and approximately 3k miles later I get a text...

John, I have a creak/knock and I think that the bb might be loose can you take a look?

It didn't take long for me to find the cause of the noise... actually in his driveway. And after a few more questions, I was heading back to my shop. What I found was to say the least, suprising.

Here's the rub.

Here's what I found. When compressing or squeezing the non-drive side crankarm laterally towards the drive side, I was able to make the whole crankset move laterally to the drive side of the bike. I could see the drive side of the crankset move out or away from the bottom bracket!! I was able to do this by squeezing the non-drive side crankarm towards the down tube or seat tube, like this (the poorly drawn red arrow vaguely shows where I was able to see the lateral movement)...

And here's a video: (Look at the area near the "center" of the crankarm and the bottom bracket cup..)

This generally is not good. This specifically, really is piss poor (not a technical term, but works well with this application).
I then repeated the same procedure on the drive-side, like this...

No movement. Rock solid.
I immediately had a really good theory about what was happening...
Ok, here goes... My theory is that because of the use of the Hirth joint, which when joined, has a fixed distance between the bearings. This doesn't allow for any discrepancy in the bottom bracket shell width. In fact, I believe that Campagnolo built in some "wiggle room" (another technical term...) to account for a certain range of shell widths. It states in the installation instructions that:

The Campagnolo Ultra Torque crankset is compatible with bottom bracket shells having the following widths:

English: 67.2mm - 68.8mm Italian: 69.2mm - 70.8mm
...that's a 1.6mm range or +/- .8mm each side of standard widths. Click here for official Campagnolo installation instructions

First, a few of my observations...

After 1-3k miles, the chances for lateral or horizontal movement increases due to the minute increases in the ID of the cups and/or the OD of the cartridge bearings. This lateral or horizontal movement towards the drive side in related to the compression of the wave or spring washer and the inability of the retaining spring to stop the movement of the system (see video 2). This occurance is probably more evident in composite frames because of the amplification of the sound or the resonating qualities of these frames. This is not to say that it’s not possible with frames made of other materials. I have just observed this issue with multiple composite frames. I found that this happens with both English and Italian bottom bracket shell designs. Two of the frames, one with English and the other Italian bottom brackets, had bottom bracket widths of 68.1 and 70.03 respectively. These measurements are pretty darn close to industry standards. So I believe that this can happen on bikes with shell widths well within normal.
Please allow me to go off on another related tangent...

Hello? Campy tech support...

Before I dove head-first into this little puzzle, I called and spoke with a kind gentleman at a large US distributor of Campagnolo the ask if he has heard of this issue. To make a long story short, he verified if I installed everything as per the instructions including the wave washer. I said that I did. He then recommended that I might add another wave washer because it is “wafer thin”…I asked if “wafer thin” is a technical term… I knew that I wasn't going to get very far info-wise, so I ordered a few to have on hand and when on my way…
While you're here, check out video 2:

The meat and potatoes

After taking accurate measurements of everything related to the bottom bracket and crankset, the only solution to this problem was to add spacers to the equation to take up the space that was allowing the movement. This had to be done to the point that there wouldn’t be any binding or side-loading of the bearings. started systematically adding spacers, starting with a .36mm spacer between the non-drive side cup and shell…

I assembled, checked for play…. Still there.
Added a .30mm spacer inside the cup between the wave washer and inside face of the non-drive side cup, reassembled, checked for play… better, but still there. Now, I thought that I was getting somewhere…
I added yet another .30mm spacer in the same location as the prior one. I then assembled again, checked for play, this time no play, or pretty darn close to no play. I was satisfied, so at this point, I disassembled it again, but this time I applied the Loctite 222 to the NDS cup threads and lubricated all of the spacers that I added.

Now, let's look at the numbers...

Bottom bracket shell width: 68.1mm
Spacer placed between NDS cup and frame: .36mm
First spacer added: .30mm
Second spacer added: .30mm
Total amount of spacers added: .96mm

This essentially adds up to the effect shell + cups width of 69.06mm. So theoretically, if you have a bike with a bottom bracket shell width of 69.6mm and you install an English Ultra Torque crankset/bottom bracket system, you won’t have the problem of lateral crankset movement.
So, the day after I deliver the bike back, I receive this text…

Perfect… 40 miles so far and no noise.

I thought, great! Problem solved… Not that I was happy about the need for the fix, but was still relieved. But wait! Not so fast… About two weeks later… another text…

My bottom bracket click has returned…

Damn… I thought, but I wasn't totally surprised. After a brief phone call, I am told that it’s not the knocking now, but a click. Back to the drawing board, but I knew that I was getting somewhere…

Round Two...

After the first fix, the knocking noise went away, but a clicking/ticking developed after < 1k miles. This mainly occured at the 6 o’clock non-drive side crankarm position when riding the bike. I was also able to produce the sound while bike was on stand. I think that this happened at the 6 o’clock position while on the bike because that is the lowest point of the power curve and most of the input force was removed from the system allowing the slight movement of the crankset to produce the click…. After closely looking at everything closely for anything that might cause a click, the only thing that was somewhat concerning was that some of the silver coating on the wave washer was rubbed off (See photo below).

I added a third .30mm spacer…Too tight. To cut to the chase, I removed a .30mm spacer and added a .34mm spacer in its place. This added .04mm to the total amount of spacers. And if my math is good, that’s a sum of 1mm. I assembled…again, and took it for a test ride…. No click. Tried to replicate the noise in the stand. Nadda. Good news.

My opinions...

1. I can’t accept this as being normal if this is the only crankset/bottom bracket design on the market that has this lateral movement... 2. I believe that the constraints of the Hirth joint and the inability to account for the normal discrepancies of bottom bracket shell widths lead to the use of both the wave washer and the retaining spring. 3. If all frames with English bottom bracket shells had exactly 68mm shell widths and if all frames with Italian bottom bracket shell widths had exactly 70mm widths and Campagnolo produced the Ultra Torque systems for those respective widths WITHOUT needing to use the wave washer and the retaining spring, there wouldn’t be this issue. 4. I think, albeit kinda far fetched, that one of the reasons why the instruction say to only tighten the cups hand tight and to use Loctite 222 is to not decrease the overall width of the shell and cups any more than it already is… We’re not talking much but as you will see, we’re not talking much anyway.

In Conclusion:

I believe that Campagnolo pigeonholed itself into this problem by incorporating the Hirth joint into the design of their Ultra Torque system. The inability of the Hirth joint to adjust for variances in shell width dimensions forced the use of the wave washer and the retention spring. Because of this limitation, they somehow agreed upon a spindle length (actually the distance between the bearings…) that was greater than the standard widths and added the washer and retention spring to make up for the range of shell widths. This is obvious because I observed this situation on a bike with a 68.1mm English bottom bracket shell as well as a bike with an Italian shell measuring 70.3mm. All of this being said, is this just me or am I missing something? I welcome any and all comments and questions. And please, correct me if I'm way off base. Thanks for checking in. -John

Clarification with an Explanation. Pt.2

"... If you're taking flack then you must be over the target..."

So, I'm going to pick up where I left off...

Now, it shouldn’t come as a surprise that by taking this position, I will more than likely upset a few folks. I guess that goes with the territory. Perhaps it would be best to break this down into two major groups. Parts and people. In reality, the two overlap somewhat… Like a Venn Diagram (Here’s a quick 5th grade math review…)

In this example, A=People and B=Parts. The overlapping middle area could be peoples' influence on parts, such as approving a design for production and sales before it has been thoroughly tested, or some yoyo improperly installing a component, etc... I think you get the idea.

I guess that I can just write about all the components and bikes that I like, and I just might do more of that. But I think that there's plenty of sunshine being blown up you-know-where on just about every site out there. Most of them are carefully written as to not upset the manufacturer who may or may not be an advertiser or sponsor.

I like to, every once and a while, share with you some of the good stuff that impresses me, and more often, I find something that frustrates me to no end. These situations sometimes boil over and end up as a post on this site. Again, let me make my intentions clear. I write this stuff with you in mind. I get hacked off just like every other person (ok... probably more...) when I have to deal with some inferior product that's dressed up as something high-quality or when someone doesn't do their job. But when I do get to writing about something, I think that a greater part of you like to "see it like it is" instead of words regurgitated from some company's marketing department.

In conclusion, my aim is to share with you my real-life experiences with products and services, in a professional manner. Wow... that sounded good. What's more than likely going to happen is an insight into my intolerance it idiocy, incompetence, apathy, mediocracy, and piss-poor design... delivered , of course, in a professional manner... You know...keeping it real. Just like you like it.       To Be Continued....

Campagnolo Ultra Torque

Is there a problem with the design of the Ultra Torque system? I really think so... Say tuned.

NEVER FORGET

Clarification with an Explanation. Pt.1

For quite some time now, I’ve been struggling with myself with regards to the “tone” or direction of my posts. In other words, how I should present things here. People who know me, for the most part, understand my thought processes and how I form my opinions.

Recently, I’ve been trying to look at my posts more objectively. What I find somewhat disheartening is that it could be easily perceived that some of my posts have a negative slant. While this is not my intention, I can see that they can be taken that way. I want everyone to realize that this is really not where I’m coming from. My objective is more in line with being an advocate for you, the end-user… the one who drops his/her hard-earned $$$ on some product or service and rightfully assumes that it will work as advertised..... To Be Continued...

How did this happen?!?!

2009 Colnago CX-1

Just in case you were wondering... This is what a $7800 bike looks like... Oh, and if you want it with Campy 11 instead of SRAM Red, then it's more like $8300.... holy cow...

I forgot...

I forgot how much I LOVE replacing the rear deraileur cable on a Kestrel Airfoil without damaging it in the process...
Again, this "required" a modification to improve shifting or decrease cable friction...

Campy 11 Speed Chain Tool

You know, one of the many things that I LOVE about everything Campagnolo is having to spend $169USD on the new chain tool that is required to install their new 11 speed chains.... God, I love that... really.

Before.... #1

After... (Putting the RogueMechanic Fix to it)

Btw... "Before" was how it came from a local IBD...

Things that I want to say but can't #1

Poor planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on mine.

Trek 5900 Headset Issue

Here's an ongoing issue that I've seen more than once. I recently revisited an issue with a 2003 Trek 5900 headset. Now, this is a nice bike ( I think that I owned on in the past...). Trek did a nice job. Light and stiff. In an effort to save some grams, they utilized a proprietary lower cartridge bearing. This was installed directly onto the crown race of the fork, thus eliminating the use of a crown bearing race. It is my understanding that this bearing was borrowed from Klein. Anyway, to cut to the chase, water likes to collect in the headtube area and cause a whole bunch of problems. This is what I'm talking about...

Well, this mess now only reeked havoc on the lower bearing, it also is evidence of the corrosion/ degrading of the aluminum steertube. Check this...

I needed a plan to stop any further degrading of the aluminum, so I got on the blower to my buddy Dr. J who is like a chemistry god and asked him for advise. He gave me a simplified lesson about what was going on and the nature of aluminum and corrosion and then he told me what to do and I did it. Here's a pic of the steertube and bearing before I installed it back into the headtube... (this is what a $45 bearing looks like...)

Btw... I recommended that the fork not be ridden and should be replaced because there is no way to confirm that the steertube is still structurally sound...
That's it for now. Thanks for checking in. -John

Compatible doesn't mean Good

Recently, I was working on 2008 Trek Madone....Nice bike. There's technology in this frame that is something to write home about, but this post isn't about promoting the Trek Madone...Here's what it looks like...
l

Anyway, before I get off on a tangent... It can with a Bontrager compact crankset, Dura Ace front and rear derailleur, SRAM 10spd chain...PC 1090 and SRAM OG 1070 cassette. I was installing a Dura Ace 7800 12-27t cassette for a lower gear range and Shimano R700 compact chainrings to improve front shifting. I was going to keep the 1090 chain because in the past when dealing with 9 speed chains, I found that there was only a slight difference between the Shimano and SRAM equivalent chains. Well, I was not at all happy with how the 1090 chain meshed or interfaced with the Dura Ace cassette. In fact it sounded more like a chainsaw than it did a top-end drivetrain. Not good. Don't get me wrong, it worked, but it didn't work nearly as well as the Shimano chain that I replaced it with. So, if your stuck in some small town, this side of East Podunk, and the local shop just happens to only have SRAM 10spd chains, it will work.... but it will sound like you're being chased by my Stihl...

Here's what the upgraded Bontrager crankset looks like...

Thanks for checking in! -John

New Pics...

Check them out... Look to yer lower left under RogueMechanic Photos....

The "P" word...

One of the many things that have wanted to vent about lately evolves around proprietary parts that are spec'ed by bike companies. Believe me, there's a lot of that going around lately and even more to come...
My latest "episode" had to do with a Trek 5900, that in and of itself is a great bike. But, in an effort to shave off grams, they incorporated a "proprietary" bearing that, it's my understanding, was borrowed from Klein. It's the lower cartridge bearing of the headset. Otherwise known as the crown race bearing.
Anyway, to make a long story short, it's make specifically for Trek/Klein, and therefore has to be ordered thru a Trek dealer... oh god...
Cutting directly to the chase, I got Eric at Trek Technical Service on the blower and got the Trek part number as well as checked availability. Being a "RogueMechanic", I couldn't order it directly....(that's a topic for another time...). Soooooo, I called the closest Trek dealer (the name rhymes with Freedies....) and tried to cut to the chase and told them EXACTLY what I needed... including the Trek part number.... Well, I knew that they wouldn't have anything like it in stock and they assumed that I didn't know what I was talking about. After verifying that I did indeed have the correct part number, the guy said that it was going to run me $44.95. I said, "Ouch!... order me two." I was ready to give him my CC number to pay for the two bearings in advance when he said that I would have to come in to the store to order them... I was like.... you're kidding me. I was paying if full for both bearings and I STILL had to drive to the store to make the transaction.... I was not happy....
After repeating EVERYTHING to the clerk that was available, and being looked at like I have something growing out of my forehead, they took me card and said that it should be a week... We'll see. So, the "P" word is proprietary... More on that later. Thanks for reading and checking in. -John

Ridley X-Fire Build

I completed this build of a new Ridley X-Fire Cross bike yesterday. Looks nice. The fit/finish is clean and it felt really solid during my short test ride. Time will only tell how it will hold up. If it's anything like my three favorite things that come from Belgium... beer, chocolate, and waffles... I think that it's a safe bet that it will be enjoyed.

Confession...

Hello Everyone. With this post, I want to make some confessions...
Ok.. here goes.
First of all, I've been less than motivated to post on this blog (as if you can't tell...). In fact, it just about takes someone to put a gun to my head to do so. Mainly because, quite frankly, I don't make money doing it. When the day comes to an end and I'm tired putting the fix to bikes, I just haven't been able to bring myself to do it. It's certainly NOT because I don't have anything to say.
I guess that another reason why I haven't posted much is that I think that I'm getting to the point that whatever I'm going to say is either going to A) Tick someone off, or B) Going to be construed as "bitching" (And I think that there's plenty of that already in the cycling industry).
Now, I'm well aware that by merely opening your mouth there's a good chance that you're going to tick someone off. In some respects, I'm ok with that. What I REALLY do not what to happen is to be grouped with those that bitch about everything. See "B" above.
So where do I go from here? Based on the volume of emails, calls, and comments that I have been receiving during the last 6 or so months since I posted, I strongly believe that people what the hear and read what I have to say. I also think that "end users" (that's you...) what are involved with cycling really want accurate information and ultimately, the truth. I remember someone once said, " If you're not catching flack, you're not over the target." How true.
So here goes... I'm going to give it another shot. We'll see what happens. Thanks for sticking around and thank all of you who have written and called. I hope that I helped in some way. -John

Not MIA...

Just checking in. Been doing a lot of projects and retooling for the 2008 season. Thanks to everyone for your emails, phone calls as well as your comments... Keep them coming! Thanks! -John

RogueMechanic Podcast Episode 11

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RogueMechanic YouTube 01

What can Brown do for you? This was the result of shipping damage...

Rogue...

This is kinda funny... ROGUE

RogueMechanic Mavic Freehub Body Pt.2

RogueMechanic Mavic Freehub Body Pt.1

This Just in!!! RogueMechanic T's!!!

Check this out...
I FINALLY had some t-shirts made. Typical me, I couldn't go with just regular quality t-shirts, I went with higher quality shirts from American Apparel. With quality comes cost. These are great shirts and come with the v1 logo. Keep in mind that this are fitted, which means they run small.

Click here to purchase!

Enjoy! ~John

RogueMechanic YouTube Intro

This is just a taste... Stay tuned...

The first $900 gets this Zipp 900...

Here's your opportunity to get a barely used 2005 Zipp 900 tubular disc wheel that's in great condition before it lands on eBay... I'd say less than 200 miles on it. Zipp lists the product weight at 940 grams!!! It's aero, fast, and light!!! It's 700c and currently has a Shimano freehub body. The Tufo Elite Jet <160g tubular tire is included. Contact me with any questions. Shipping should run $25.00 anywhere in the US except Alaska and Hawaii... Those of you who know, will realize that this is a great deal. O.k...I'm going to take off my salesman's cap now...

RogueMechanic Podcast Episode 10

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Dear FSA/SRM....

...We'll talk about this later... -John

Mavic Ksyrium SL Issue...Follow-up

Just an FYI... Mavic did the right thing and covered this issue under warranty. They rebuilt the wheel, replacing the hub and the spokes. No complaints. Nice job Mavic.

Wow...

Hello All,
Some quick updates...
I'm busier than ever... Thanks to all who referred new customers. It's greatly appriciated!
I'm in the process of moving and redesigning the RogueMechanic shop. Exciting and crazy. This has created a whole new level of craziness...
The number of subscribers and listeners of the RogueMechanic Podcast has been consistantly growing as well as the amount of e-mails and comments. I haven't had the time or energy to publish another episode. I promise one soon. Remember, bikes come first...
Last but not least, I recently aquired a new Ultrasonic parts cleaner (two actually...). I'm impressed! Thanks for checking in and for spreading the word. ~John

It's 12:47am...

Do you know where your bike mechanic is?



This one is just trying to get things done... It's a constant game of catch-up. I'm not complaining.

Mavic Ksyrium SL Issue...

Here's an odd one. This shows that even some of the best products in the market can fail. What you're looking at in the first photo is the part of the hub that the freehub body is installed over. It's where the pawls are located (pawls and springs not shown in photo).

This photo shows the failure...

Here's a closer look..

This should fall under Mavic's warranty policy. The wheel has been sent and I'm just waiting to hear back from the Mavic warranty department. If by some odd reason they say it's not covered....oh.... there's going to be some issues... I'll keep you posted.

How's your Headset?

Most people don't think too much about their headsets. It's one of those components that's absolutely critical but often ignored. When it goes south, it's due to corrosion and/or bearing/race failure. One of the bad things that could happen if you let it go too far is actually damage to the steer tube of the fork. Watch for really tight, loose, or "indexed" steering. Be aware that even cartridge bearings go bad, and most are easy to replace. And for all of those with Chris King headsets, stay on top of the maintenance of those bearings so that it will turn smooth for years. The ten year warranty does not mean ten years maintenance free...

RogueMechanic Podcast 09

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RogueMechanic Podcast 08

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Lebron buys into Cannondale

Here's a link to the story... I guess that he has plenty of money to lose.

RogueMechanic Podcast 07

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Thanks for checking in and for taking the time to suscribe to the RogueMechanic Podast on iTunes.

RMPC Shownotes Episode 06

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This episode is the second part of my interview with Eric from Cyfac. This system of fitting is different from the others out there and I think that you will find what Eric has to say interesting.

Checking in

I'm still here... as you can imagine, I'm up to my youknowwhat with work. Thanks for sticking around and for your kind comments about the RogueMechanic Podcast. -John

RMPC Shownotes Episode 05

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This episode is the first of a series of interview with Eric Sakalowsky, Director of VeloEuropa and importer of Cyfac and the Cyfac Postural System.

Here's the link to the Cyfac Postural System.

Thanks for checking in and for taking the time to suscribe to the RogueMechanic Podast on iTunes.

My Podcast Alley feed! {pca-de5d9665a0d9dcd4dfb247bc2e89c063}

RMPC Shownotes Episode 04

RogueMechanic Podcast Episode 04

Listen on iTunes.

Download RogueMechanicPodcast Episode 04

Here's the link to Barnett Bicycle Institute.

Go here to see the Litespeed "Anonymity Kit"

Campy's Ultra Torque Crankset page.

and here's a link to the .pdf file... Scroll down to page 12 to see what I'm talking about...

Here's the 2007 Entrants list for the Leadville Trail 100.

SRAM Force Brake Recall Notice

The Way I See It 02

I know that it's been too long... but reading today's Starbucks cup reminded me...

The way I see it...
If you're going to provide the same level of service that can be found at at big box store, your days are numbered....

RMPC Shownotes Episode 03

Here's a link to the RogueMechanic Podcast on iTunes or just click here to listen right now!
Download RogueMechanicPodcast3.m4a (12542.8K)
Quite frankly, I haven't had enough time to completely figure out this whole podcasting thing just yet, but I'm pretty excited to get it up and running. So, hang tight while I get things situated...
and if you would be so kind, please suscribe to the podcast on iTunes. Thanks in advance! Ok, on with the shownotes...

I don't know why I'm providing this, but here's a link to Bianchi.

Shimano chains.

Campagnolo chains.

SRAM chains.

Here's my email... Hit me up with questions, comments, suggestions...

That's it for now.... Back to the bikes.

RMPC Shownotes 02

I'm still trying to figure out this whole podcasting thing. Hopfully I'll get it ironed out sooner rather than later... Here are the links that I mentioned in RMPC 02...

RogueMechanic email address: roguemechanic@gmail.com

Skype

Gotta get back to the bikes...

Thanks!
John

Felt FC

Joe's new ride....